![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:20 • Filed to: McLaren, P1, Nurburgring | ![]() | ![]() |
This image was lost some time after publication.
!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , a P1 set a laptime of 7 minutes and 4 seconds at the 'Ring. For those of you that lose track of other lap times, because well frankly there's too many, the closest road-legal cars are the Gumpert Apollo and the Viper ACR, achieving 07:11.1 and 07:15.6, respectively.
They are also saying that this laptime won't actually be made public as it's "5 seconds too slow". So it seems McLaren is trying to beat the 7 minute mark.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:26 |
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The big question is.... street tyres?
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:28 |
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Well, they wouldn't be the first car manufacturer to slightly cheat on a 'Ring time and I couldn't say if everything is completely final in the car's software yet. Still, that's bloody quick, and I guess that their aim in building the car was for it to be the king of the track.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:28 |
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That got FP'd fast.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:28 |
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:O
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:31 |
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WAIT. so youre telling me that a DODGE VIPER is faster around the ring than ANY street-legal Ferrari or Porsche EVER????
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:37 |
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Yes.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:37 |
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Mike "The Snipe" Ballaban
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:38 |
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This is actually less impressive than what I was expecting. It's only faster than existing cars by the same margin that the ACR and ZR1 are separated by. And its stats are considerably better than the ACR's in almost every way, whereas the ACR and ZR1 are almost identical. This makes me wonder if the P1 still has some kinks to work out.
I was hoping that this round of supercars would be the first to break 7 minutes in a more-than-one-seat production vehicle. There's still hope for La Ferrari though.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:40 |
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Yeah, pretty much.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:41 |
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Yes.
The fastest Porsche-run test was a Carrera GT in 2004. It ran a 7:28. Someone else ran a GT2 RS in 2010 and managed a 7:24. I don't believe Ferrari sanctions any Ring runs. It appears EVO magazine took an Enzo around in 2008 and posted a 7:25.7.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:43 |
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Duh.
Think about Nurburgring for a second. It requires 1: Massive downforce. 2. Lots of top speed. Look at a Dodge Viper ACR. The only cars Ferrari has made with a power/weight ratio close to the ACR have yet to be tested on the Nurburgring, Porsche hasn't made a car with a power/weight ratio better, and no one else made a track-special version of their cars tuned for this course.
If Ferrari took a 458 and released it as a Nurburgring edition, and made enough to call it a "production car", gave it 700HP and lost some weight, it would probably be faster than the Viper. It just so happens that Dodge (because the Viper is cheap) didn't lose a lot money developing the ACR. Every other car company would have to spend a lot of research and gut their composed street machines to match it.
The ACR happened when Dodge took the gloves off and decided to beat Chevrolet at the Nurburgring. They succeeded easily.
There's a huge difference between a "fast road car" (Porsche, Ferrari, etc.) and a "Fast Race car for the road" (ACR).
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:44 |
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Turns out a car built-up almost exclusively for the track is faster than a bunch of cars that aren't. Especially with ferrari skipping the "street legal track car" in favor of cars like the 599XX and the FXX.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:45 |
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Question: what happens if you put a turbo the size of a whale's heart on an ACR?
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:51 |
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I feel like this is a beatiful moment—the moment that mr.idk went beyond the hype, and began to understand the car world as it really is. We should all celebrate this. Welcome, friend.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:55 |
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Your fucking right it is, bro.
#ACRrapeingshit
![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:56 |
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![]() 09/01/2013 at 16:59 |
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Actually the 2010 Dodge Viper ACR time is 7:12:13. Dodge's ACR-X did 7:05 but is not street legal.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:00 |
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You crash hard enough to kill your ancestors
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:05 |
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"They are also saying that this laptime won't actually be made public as it's "5 seconds too slow". So it seems McLaren is trying to beat the 7 minute mark."
Not surprised that they won't post it. This car really has three major points.
1. Reach 300kph as fast as possible.
2. Take advantage of its insane downforce for unmatched speed through corners.
3. Accelerate out of corners faster than anything else.
It's the ultimate momentum car. For a lap time to be above 7 minutes would indicate that the strategy for putting down absolutely ludicrous lap times hasn't yet been optimized.
If there was another 9-10 seconds they could get out of the car, it honestly wouldn't surprise me.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:05 |
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You end up having way to much power for the wheels to handle and the car becomes un-drivable.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:08 |
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918's 7:14 isn't cutting it, and I really WANT the Porsche to stand in that big three as an equal, not a half-assed runner-up that had the idea quicker but got upstaged.
I'm waiting for TheFerrari's time too and all will be right with the universe if it's in the 7:teens meaning the McLaren is just best on that track while the two lag behind.
Porsche. Do something.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:13 |
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And when you appropriately upgrade your tires (if that's really possible)?
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:14 |
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By no means do I consider Ring times to be the defacto measure of a cars performance. Drivers and setup go a long way in determining results. I'm not saying it's meaningless either... The other thing to remember is the Viper ACR is a pretty legit race car that just so happens to be street legal. Take a look at what it's accomplished on the track. It's an impressive car.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:17 |
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Miata guy is like all: Meh, it's all about the balance...the balance.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:19 |
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What?
"The greatest car ever" (Ron Dennis), did only 7:04 at the Ring?
LOL, LOOOL, LOOOOOOLLLLLLLL
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:20 |
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No, there isn't. Ferrari doesn't care for Nurburgring lap times.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:21 |
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You know, most car makers would be pleased if one of their models could get around 13 miles, over 1000 feet of elevation change, AND over 100 corners in just over 7 minutes. Still, his Stigness will be most pleased when he gets a crack at this...
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:23 |
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The time has been made public !
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:26 |
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I'll be faster than the Ferrari no doubt, and thats all McLaren wants.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:27 |
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I'm kind of the same. I don't know why, but as much as I love and want the other two...the 918....it just seems so perfect to me. I know its the heaviest and the least powerful, but also the least expensive. And you can take it down to your local porsche/audi/whatever other marque they share space with dealership to get it serviced. And since it's a Porsche, it won't break, ever. And its got gear-driven cams for gods sake. And the interior looks...perfect. Honestly, I want it more than anything. Hopefully Porsche, as with all German manufacturers, is sandbagging the ring time by quite a bit. I think we all know the best way to test these three....the best Top Gear road test of all time.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:30 |
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Uh, the turbo lag would be a bitch. Not enough power leaving a corner, wait a sec then BOOM more torque than you were expecting at the wrong time. Two smaller turbos would give the same insane power but less lag so it would be smoother. Pretty sure it only takes a small whiff of boost pressure to wind that big V10 up to mindblowing power levels, more than a RWD car even with huge wide slicks could handle easily.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:30 |
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Probably not that simple, you'd probably have to rework the suspension, downforce, brakes ect... That's not even counting the increased chance of breaking something so you might not even make it around the track. At some point you run into that pesky thing call Physics.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:32 |
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Nothing wrong with that time at all. Just doesn't have the same wow factor as "Under 7 minutes" but they are working on it.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:43 |
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The 7:14 laptime was set by a 918 prototype just about one year ago. A production 918 should lap much closer (or below) the 7 minute mark.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:45 |
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You could also say, "Wait, are you telling me that 30 years later nobody can beat the all time record held by the Porsche 956? Even in the ACR, a car that by all rational standards is a full on race car with 25 extra years of development time?"
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:45 |
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A semi-track car is faster than a road-biased supercar, yes.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:47 |
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Thing is, to get 5 seconds off a fast lap at the Nordschleife you just need the right weather, clear air and some Brave Pills. So I reckon they can crack 7 minutes.
Which, by the way, is craziness .
![]() 09/01/2013 at 17:56 |
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Lol he seems rustled.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:01 |
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Where did you get 1:15 for the viper?
it is 7:12.13
http://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times/lap-…
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:01 |
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![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:08 |
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Whatever. That's still one of the ugliest hypercars ever made. Those oversized back wheel arches looks like the hind legs on a frog, that front makes me think of a kid with Down's syndrome, the bulbous cabin in the middle looks like it was inspired by "The Homer" — and it's all fused together in a amorphous way, with lines going all over the place. It's an all around terrible looking car.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:16 |
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And it has a manual transmission... none of that double clutch horse shit!
![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:16 |
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Well, remember that Dodge has been around a long time to. Its not like Ferrari and Porsche were the only game in motorsport.
Also, Ferrari & Porsche like to "jazz up" their cars. Dodge likes to "forge" their cars in the fires of Mt. Doom.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:21 |
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I hope no controversy comes to this car going around this track. You know, how these cars set times but then you find out they were using non OEM parts to attain said times.
If your a supercar nerd, Mclaren has an amazing catalog. The F1, P1, MP4-12C. That they can stay relevant with the small shop of cars is crazy.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:23 |
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Yeah, but ring times are semi-meaningless in my opinion. Think about how long the track is, that magnifies differences in lap times, exaggerating the effects of things like ambient temperature, moisture and of course driver skill.
That last one is the most important. Different drivers prefer different setups and that viper may well have been driven by someone who loves the way the stock viper is set up. Another professional driver no slower under most circumstances might hate it, causing a several second gap on a course so large. Conversely, the opposite is also possible, maybe under certain circumstances the viper could be 3-4 seconds faster than its showed.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:25 |
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That's bogus. The ACR wasn't a race car at all. It had a full interior and no safety cage. The engine was essentially unchanged from a stock SRT10. And if you didn't order the "hard core" package, it still had a stereo, A/C, and trunk and hood liners. The car barely weighed 50lbs less than its standard sibling.
It had nothing to do with Viper race cars. It was a production Viper with massive aero and suspension/brakes. It's stupid to downplay their achievement by calling it a "race car" for the street.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:29 |
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The ACR-X that set the record was as hard core as they come and it was caged... Cause we don't have time for killing drivers.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:39 |
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I am, by no means, downplaying their achievement. I'm just pointing out that there should be no surprise that the ACR is faster than a 458. If anything, I'm calling Ferrari out on not even trying to keep up.
A race car for the road, to clarify, is a car that is designed primarily for track use (which the ACR was) that is still street legal. A Porsche GT3 RS is like this also.
A fast road car is designed for road use, and while able to go on a track, may not be optimized for it. The 458 falls in this category.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 18:39 |
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Can you post a link to some sources? The photos Im seeing of the car don't look like a caged and gutted ACR-X, but a standard ACR. Granted I could be seeing photos of the record-setting 2008 (2009?) run in a stock ACR... so it'd be nice to get clarification on that.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:00 |
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Yup, there's a whole slew of cars that have faster laps, including a Bone stock ZR1, which is more street oriented than the ACR, yet was only about 7 seconds behind it.
Here are all the regular production street cars ahead of the fastest Ferrari, an Enzo:
Viper ACR - 7:12.13
Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package - 7:14.64
Corvette ZR1 - 7:19.63
Corvette ZO6 - 7:22.68
911 GT2 RS - 7:24
Nissan GT-R - 7:24.22
and finally, the Enzo - 7:25.7
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:00 |
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No, the front end looks like a smiley tree frog, and the rear looks like it's legs. And it sure does stick to the road like a tree frog to a wall.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:02 |
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Why do you find that shocking?
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:04 |
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I doubt anyone makes a commercially-available turbo big enough to be laggy on a Viper V10... let's assume a single turbo with 900chp, about the same power as the P1 (electric and ICE). The Gen IV Viper makes 600chp stock, and I'm going to assume that airflow is the limiting factor- bar all engine components not made from unobtanium, etc- and say we need 0.5 bar of boost (~7 or 8 PSI). Do you think a measly 8 PSI would cause lag in a modern, ball bearing turbo?
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:07 |
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The car Dodge took around the ring and set that time with wasn't an ACR-X. It was the normal street legal ACR that has a regular interior with a stereo and a/c. The only difference between the SRT10 and the ACR is a ton of aero improvements, tires, brakes, and suspension; it isn't stripped in any way. Unless you got the hardcore package which dropped maybe 50lbs by removing the stereo, a/c, hood and trunk liners, and sound dampening materials.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:11 |
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Car specifications and lap time increases don't have a linear relationship. The faster you get, the better your car has to be for the same amount of go-faster.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:11 |
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I disagree- a big factor in the ACR's lap time was some engineer's understanding of aerodynamics- after all, not everyone can design a system that makes half a ton of downforce and make it work. I'm just really interested in seeing what's possible if the original design specs are surpassed by someone even more insane and with less regard for customers' ego and underwear than Mopar engineers.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:14 |
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See my first response then, the car becomes un-drivable.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:14 |
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i find it shocking that companies that pride themselves in their racing heritages & racing teams, and automotive-engineering prowess would be beaten so easily by a car equipped with only a six-speed manual, rear-wheel-drive and a highly-tuned-naturally aspirated-oversized truck engine, along with none of the many modern technologies found in supercars. Im surprised that a relatively "analog" player won by such a large margin in a "digital" world.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:15 |
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its also quite shocking that a z06 beat the GTR
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:18 |
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Well, obviously, at some point...but it is demonstrably possible to break the 7-minute barrier.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:19 |
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Engines aren't horses. Breed is irrelevant. If the power is right, the weight is right and the talent is right, the result will be right. Results aren't influenced by racing pedigree, nor are they influence by whatever 'world' we live in.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:39 |
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Yeah, I just read that. They did take the ACR-X around the 'ring too, though. It set a 7:03 lap time. That video is amazing.
I spoke with a Viper racer once that told me a lot of people mistakenly believed that the Viper had traction control; it turns out there's just that much grip.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:45 |
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okay, let me rephrase my ideas this way. Ask the average person (enthusiast or not, but preferably enthusiast) the question:
Which do you think is faster on a racetrack? a Dodge, a Ferrari, or a Porsche?
Whether they know about the viper or not, they will most likely say Porsche or Ferrari simply because it is expected that a Porsche or Ferrari would be faster simply because of the stigma surrounding them as very expensive and very fast cars. so when you say "Breed is irrelevant" I disagree because breed is most certainly relevant since most people (enthusiast or not) would assume that the "breeds" of Ferrari or Porsche would be the fastest. Also the fact that my original comment got 11 stars shows that most people would find it shocking that a dodge is faster around the ring than a porsche or a ferrari
![]() 09/01/2013 at 19:49 |
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Not by just slapping a turbo onto the car. You don't know what it would do, okay so you add bigger tires but now you have more power going to heavier wheels. Can your side shafts take the extra stress or are they going to break on you? What about handling? Are these tires going to change the way the car corners, how is the traction control going to handle all the extra power, is it going to freak out so you have to turn it off?
If anything it will probably be slower times because all you are getting is a more tail happy RWD rocket that comes out of the corners slower because the driver is trying not to spin out and die.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 20:13 |
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The Viper is a real performance vehicle, not a niche high quality performance coupe.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 20:15 |
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Ferrari would show up with at least ten of them, and then complain that the German weather made their cars too slow and the track wet.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 20:17 |
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One note: Vipers, historically, didn't offer traction control.
Other than that, I agree with you, but I should have probably said "whale-heart-turbo and supporting mods".
![]() 09/01/2013 at 20:24 |
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Could have sworn I saw something about traction control on the ACR somewhere. any who I think the guys at Dodge designed the Viper to be just below death trap lunacy.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 20:34 |
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Agreed. It's fugly as hell (for a supercar)
![]() 09/01/2013 at 21:15 |
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The Porsche-run CGT test yielded a 7:32, a magazine did a 7:28. Also for the GT2 RS the Porsche-run test was a 7:18, a magazine ran a 7:24.
Just sayin'. ;-)
![]() 09/01/2013 at 21:17 |
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Porsche took a 918 development prototype (with less power actually than the final production version has) and went round in 7:14 making it the fastest Porsche ever around the ring. I would expect that time to come down a little however.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 21:19 |
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![]() 09/01/2013 at 21:21 |
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Don't worry, as Ryan said that 7:14 figure was done on a rather early prototype with much less power than the current car. And oh, it was done from a standing start which is a few seconds lost in itself.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 21:29 |
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The new 2013 ones do thanks to government regulations, but everything previous did not.
Thanks Obama.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 22:05 |
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The person that would openly and readily answer that question without questions of their own (what race track? What kind of Dodge, Ferrari or Porsche?, what conditions? etc...doesn't know a thing about racing. Its not to say that their opinion isn't legit, but it is most certainly ill informed.
So you bring a Nurburgring beating Dodge Viper to Monza next week, drop it on the F1 grid and lets see how it fares. How long before it is lapped?
Its all so damn silly. Breed is irrelevant because racing is about the given circumstances, set of rules in place for both track and machine and the conditions the race as it occurs. The car that best meets those challenges along with the skill set of the given driver is the victor.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 22:06 |
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And since it's a Porsche, it won't break, ever.
I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at that statement.
http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/topic.…
![]() 09/01/2013 at 22:12 |
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ppppfpffft I could do it in 6:30.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 22:22 |
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http://jalopnik.com/did-the-mclare…
Man I love hype.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 22:27 |
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People seem to be missing the fact that the Viper that set this time was using an 80 treadwear cup racing tire. There are also people online who believe they have proof that the tires were actually racing slicks cut to look like the cup tires. Hardly comparable to a normal lap time.
This is similar to when Pagani ran the Huayra around the Top Gear track with racing slicks cut to look like street tires.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 22:37 |
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Dude, you have some serious misconceptions about cars... and if you ask a true enthusiast the Dodge/Ferrari/Porsche question, they'll answer Dodge. That doesn't mean the Viper is a better car than a 458 or GT3, nor does it mean one is more or less technologically superior. Ferrari, for example, uses shocks that are licensed from GM... and the Vette usually gets the latest version of them first. The metallurgy, mechanical engineering, computer systems and whatever else makes up a car are not any worse over at Dodge or Chevy; they just can't put so much of their money into final production or finishing details, as that would mean a Viper or Vette will be just as expensive as a Ferrari or McLaren... the bits of the car that make it move are not any worse or, as evidenced by the lap times, better than the more prestigious super-car stuff.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 23:18 |
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So about 20 seconds faster than the Ferrari Enzo, and 23ish seconds faster than the Carrera GT. That makes the Enzo look slow! I feel like we have nearly reached the limits of production road car capabilities even if tire compounds improve as always how can we find anymore grip to go faster without going featherweight?
![]() 09/01/2013 at 23:29 |
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And by brave pills your mean giants balls. Although giant balls are not conducive to left foot braking, which is why I hope the 918 has a flat bottom steering wheel...
![]() 09/01/2013 at 23:31 |
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NEIN NEIN NEIN NIEN NEIN!
That car is beautiful and you know it.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 23:33 |
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I went around it once at 6:30.
The only thing is, I finished at 6:45.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 23:36 |
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I dont have any misconceptions. And i seriously doubt that most will answer dodge. what I am saying is that most people find it surprising that dodge makes a faster track car than porsche and ferrari. If thats not surprising, to you , then fine. But The fact that my comment got 16 stars proves my point.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 23:46 |
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Holy shit at Niki Lauda's pole position lap.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
The track is 2km longer than now and it still broke 7 min.
![]() 09/01/2013 at 23:50 |
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The only double clutching going on is for downshifting. ;)
![]() 09/02/2013 at 00:03 |
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Ummm.... NO.
The ACR-X is not street legal for one, and two, just check out the video of the run and it's obvious it was a standard ACR. Or the photos... or any general research on the run.
![]() 09/02/2013 at 00:04 |
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Probably not even then... because synchronizers! ;)
![]() 09/02/2013 at 00:22 |
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Impressive? Absolutely. Relevant? Not so much.
But hey, good for them!
![]() 09/02/2013 at 00:24 |
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Yeah - Dodge Viper is one serious motherfucker on the track.
![]() 09/02/2013 at 00:57 |
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Ask John Hennessy
![]() 09/02/2013 at 01:01 |
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This car should be faster. There is a law of diminishing returns but it should beat my dinosaur by more than 8 sec.
![]() 09/02/2013 at 01:14 |
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Put Chris Harris or me in the seat. For the price it must be high 6 in Green Hell. I mean it is 2013 and my iPhone has the computing power to send a human to the moon... Come on! Regardless he is Captain Slow lol #idomydaily12lapsinforza
![]() 09/02/2013 at 01:18 |
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Wrote this with just reading the headline and looking at the picture
![]() 09/02/2013 at 01:19 |
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It's all about the angles. And the sexy prototype paint job.
![]() 09/02/2013 at 01:31 |
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Timo Kluck, Porsche test driver, told me the 918 Spyder definitely has a sub-7 minute time in it.
![]() 09/02/2013 at 02:09 |
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It's alright, but it won't be as legendary as the F1
![]() 09/02/2013 at 02:23 |
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I could do it in 9"..oh wait, wrong metric.
![]() 09/02/2013 at 02:29 |
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Well, since a blue whale's heart is kinda the size of a Beetle, you would not be able to see the track.